Just say it, “Illegal Immigrants”. Don’t give me any crap about it either.
No matter what side of the immigration debate you find yourself, the focus of the debate is on those who are here illegally. It’s not a debate about their documentation so don’t call them “undocumented”.
For now, I don’t care if you are for or against amnesty for illegal immigrants or whether or not you want a guest worker program with or without a “path to citizenship”. For purposes of my point at least, I don’t care if you want to round up every illegal alien / immigrant and ship them back or give them a job. I couldn’t care less, for now (read - “this complaint / argument”).
My biggest complaint about changing the term from “illegal immigrants” to “undocumented . . . guest workers . . . temporary sojourners . . . or whatevers” is that by doing so, your attempt to re-focus the issue confirms my suspicion that you really are willing to completely manipulate the political process and look the other way on this, and virtually any other important issue as it long as it suits you and you alone.
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Imagine if California created a new law that made illegal for any non-Californian to move there. And if NY state did the same, and Texas, etc. Let’s assume this would not contradict any Federal law for a second. How aggravated would you be if you were born in, say, Arizona and cannot move to San Francisco to pursue an opportunity? Why illegal? Why can’t someone choose where in this world they want to live? Should you be stuck to the place you were born? Think about it.
Nosy on July 1st, 2007 at 7:39 am | Link
That’s why they call it the “American Dream” - anyone can come here after they wait through the legal process. That’s like saying “why wasn’t I born rich - everyone has the right be born rich.”
Our country is the first of it’s kind. Every country has the right to protect what they have built as a community. It’s not the right of others to barge in without going through the correct processes.
Starts making a little more sense, right?
Christine Givens Hahn on July 1st, 2007 at 8:18 am | Link
expecting the media to become accurately descriptive and to present honest depictions sans all the tortured pc terms and rhetoric regarding this issue would be irrational.
they’ve become transparent to the point of silliness, and laughter is preferable to rage. however when and if the naive, and/or irrational, for whom even the transparent is opaque–such as our first commenter here–reach a certain critical mass, i won’t be laughing, and the way things are going, it could happen.
Personally I get a little angry when it takes my husband and I over 26 months to adopt a child from China because of all the illegal crap clogging our system. The US homeland security ppwk we filed should have taken 3 months, instead it took 8 months!
It wouldn’t be so hard to imigrate here if everyone followed the rules. And, the only ppl welcome here should be those who will positively contribute to our society NOT suck from it. I choose to think my tax dollars go toward the flowers planted in the median.
Yeah, I’m venting. But for the love of God, it’s nearly the 4th of July and there aren’t many of our born citzens who even know what the heck they have here.
A sad state of affairs to say the very least.
Christine Givens Hahn on July 3rd, 2007 at 8:07 pm | Link
ah yes the argument is illegal thats becuse they broke the law, american laws! This makes them by definition illegal. As for a state passing a law restricting immigration of us citizens accross their border they would not stay a state of the USA for long. Hence you are a citizen of the USA not of the state in which you live. There is certainly state residency but used mostly to determine who has paid taxes to the state and who is eleigible for state benefits in that particular state. Most of the illegal aliens in this country are here becuse they can’t make it in their home country becuase of the type of person he/she is not becuase of circumstance. If they were law biding upstanding people they would use the process and procedures. Don’t be fooled of a minute their are plenty of very wealthy successfull people in other countries and yes even Mexico.
Mark on July 24th, 2007 at 10:16 am | Link
Oh yes and critical mass hmm thats how much mass it takes for thermonuclear fission to take place. as far as the media and PC I think were almost there! It will be a great day to see a complete self desctruct of those mainstream media hoseheads.
Mark on July 24th, 2007 at 10:17 am | Link
I need to know how to turn in a family of Illegal critzen who live above us. can some one help us plese.
nancyhaft on October 8th, 2007 at 3:17 pm | Link
Oh no! Not Critzen!!!
Un, actually “illegal immigrants” is inaccurate too. The proper phrase is “illegal aliens”. Immigrants come to this country legally. This corruption of the language is brought to you by those trying to presume a certain conclusion to this issue. My favorite such advocacy group is “Mexican’s Without Borders”.
Chuck on October 14th, 2007 at 6:54 am | Link
This is what you said. Please explain because that doesn’t make any sense. What the hell does that have to do with the Mexican (or otherwise) border? People like you think it’s just so easy to follow the rules, apply for a passport, and bam! you’re here in America legally. This is not at all the case, and you know it. So quit acting like its so easy.
Everyone wants to come to America. You can’t blame them. Did you know that the U.S. only allows for a maximum of 270,000 visas anually? Take that.
student in high school on November 16th, 2007 at 9:36 am | Link
Duh, thats exactly what Christine said is what you have reiterated. Maybe you should pay a bit better attention in your high school studies and you would know these things but you can’t pay attention to a written post how could you pay attention in class?
Anyway INS is so busy taking care of the borders that they have such an incredible backlog it takes forever for the legal process to move!
mark on November 17th, 2007 at 4:44 pm | Link
Hi Im American Citizen and live in NY. I think the law is not fair.I been married to my husband who lives in Kosovo for 6 yrs. 6yrs ago he tried to come ilegal in America and he has been cought in Kosovo.He paid 50 euro for what he had done.When i got married to him i tried to bring him here and his papers got denied because he broke the law by attempting to come ilegal.I think it’s crazy.I been with him for almost 10 yrs and married for 6.I told them why he tried ilegal and they don’t care, they told me to go and live back with him.I think they are not fair and law is not fair. An American Citizen to sufur for almost nothing it’s not fair.
Anyway, I HAT ETHE LAW IN AMERICA.They don’t have the same law for everybody.
Kosova on December 2nd, 2007 at 2:31 pm | Link
If you hate america so much leave it!!!!!!
mark on December 3rd, 2007 at 5:00 pm | Link
Laws are not permanent. They can be revised, overruled, upheld etc… The “illegal” label is not permanent either. However by adding “illegal” to “alien” that creates a Frame for the discussion in those terms and with certain assumptions before anything else is said. the most neutral thing to do would be to toss out “illegal” AND “undocumented” and just call them “aliens.” At least that exposes the xenophobe nature of the majority of Americans that aren’t in the West or East coast without trying to stack the cards in favor or against the “aliens”.
The media (the 4th Branch of Government) adds this words on purpose, as part of their spin campaigns. Once they suceed at establishing a certain Frame that they can use to create their Spin, the rest of the discussion happens in those terms. That’s why Republicans like calling them “illegals” and Democrats “undocumented.”
Just my 2 cents
The Logos on April 11th, 2008 at 2:19 pm | Link
They are called illegal because they came to this country illegally. Perhaps you would prefer to call them offender aliens since that is what we now call our prison inmates. Republicans call them illegal aliens because that is what they are and the republican party is somewhat less likely to succumb to the political correctness that somehow against all majority has become the not accepted but required lingo. This is why the Democrats prefer to call them undocumented because it is perceived to be politically correct (what the hell ever that means).
why pray tell would you want to call them something neutral? As far a xenophobe most fears are based in reality such a fear of height and what could happen.
There is a way to come to this country and do it within the bounds of our laws. When people break our laws they are criminals so perhaps we should call them criminal aliens. Any way I say call it what it is. If its a tiger call it a tiger (Siegfried and Roy) if its a criminal lets call it a criminal if its an illegal lets call it an illegal……
The Media the 4th branch of government. Oh man do you have that right the 4th and most powerful branch of government (and wholly unelected) and you say we live in a republic?
Ok so the 5th branch of government must be the banks
The 6th the insurance companies.
sorry for the off topic but I think Logos brings up a very important and topic here!
mark on April 11th, 2008 at 7:36 pm | Link
“They are called illegal because they came to this country illegally.”
-mark
The problem with the illegal label is that its a label that should describe your status and not your person. People are not illegal, but their actions can be. Especially if it is an isolated illegal action and if the laws are more than likely going to change so that that action will in retrospect no longer be considered illegal.
“why pray tell would you want to call them something neutral?”
-mark
The reason you want a neutral term for these individuals is because its in the best interests of fairness that neither political party exploits their human suffering to advance their political ends. That’s why I disagree with creating a debate about the issue in terms of “illegals” OR “undocumented” aliens.
“As far a xenophobe most fears are based in reality such a fear of height and what could happen.”
-mark
I imagine the argument you’re trying to make is: 1-)since fears are based in reality and 2-)they represent a concern for future outcomes; then it is ok to be xenophobic. But the reality is that stereotypes are also based on reality, yet few would agree that they’re a positive thing. The truth is that the United States is not as accepting of immigrants as it once was. Years of the media and the government cultivating fear-of-the-other in the population have given rise to today’s climate of intolerance. Add to that economic decline that US has been experiencing and you have all the elements for xenophobia. Obama was right when he said simple minded, small town people cling to religion/superstition and guns to protect them from the looming evil ahead personified in Al Quaeda, immigrants, avian flu, North Korea, Hugo Chavez etc etc etc…
The Logos on April 14th, 2008 at 8:16 am | Link
yes the label (Illegal alien) does describe the status of person who came to this coutnry illegally simple and without argument they are people who broke the law of the USA. Illegal alien describes their status just like alien describes the status of someone who came to this country from somwhere else. So you can say this about an illegal alien they are humans, they are aliens they are illegal aliens all descriptors of who and what they are and what status they hold among their fellows.
Fairness who ever said life is fair. Life is hardly ever fair. Take those for example who are born with defects to thier person. Take those for example who are born into leadership prince blah blah or those who are born into wealth kennedy all over the place here. Were the illegals playing the game fair when they made to choice to violate USA laws and enter our country. The politcal ends you and both know is staying in power if they can get these poeple to vote and vote for the specific politician they get to reamin in power.
Human suffereing is a product of failed, corrupt, greedy leadership not of the people. It is therefore not a problem for us to fix. As James said early on a similar thread
“How is that our fault? Why don’t they use the USA as a model for their own country rather than steal from us?
Should we just let all 6 billion people in the world come here?”
When and if we are talking about Mexico which most are when discussing this topic even tho it spans various other countries. Mexico is a very large very beutiful country highly rich in resources just wainting for develpment. There is no reason Mexico can not be prosperous on their own accord if it were not for the corrupt government. So we really have no place here talking of human suffereing.
Actually the point I am making with fears are usually based in reality is not a pridiction of future outcomes. It is simply that a fear is a fear becuse it can happen or has happened. I totally agree that sterotypes are based in reality and most agree they are not a good thing. As it leads those in the sterotype class to act a certain way and for other to expect that certain action. This is where you must take martin luther kings words to heart “judge me not by the color of my skin but by the depth of my character.” and here we have illgal aliens breaking our laws which shows a profound lack of character.
The truth is as you say the USA is not as acepting of immigrants as they once were. Well as Judge Koch was once quotes as saying “I have never met anyone who once moves to the USA want to leave” this means we have a whole lotta people wanting to come here. If we just roll over and let them all in you want to talk about human suffering that is when we can begin that discussion.
I would bet most people who are against illegal immigration have at one time or another been affected by the illegals and not an all out media blitz creating these fears.
If you have ever gone to a small town see how simple minded those folks are. some the biggest best and brightest come from small towns.
As for those of you who claim to be the open minded Well if you open your mind there are those all around who will throw garbage in without your consent. “He who does not stand for something will fall for anything.”
So I can tell you want to take our guns away now! Follow the path of Hitler and see what then maybe we can discuss Human suffarage.
Tell me you don’t fear as an American Hugo Chaves, North Korea Al Queaeda those who want us dead those who want to see us suffer. Ask then after those folk have their way again about human suffarage.
mark on April 14th, 2008 at 1:31 pm | Link
There was a time when I really sympathized with the illegals. I mean, as a human, who doesn’t want a better life for their family? EVERYONE DOES! Does that mean everyone in the world that wants to work in the US and send their money back to another country should move to the US? Absolutly not.
Try to think of it like this: if you are poor because you live in a bad neighborhood and have bad parents that you could just pack a bag and move to France or Sweden? Absolutly not. Countries are countries because they have laws that must be followed. I can’t live in France just because I decided I want to and illegals (no matter the country) can’t live in America because they want to. PERIOD. Step up the border control. We don’t need another 9/11 and I know plenty of legals who need a job. Our own citizens can build houses just fine, thank you.
My Two Cents on June 9th, 2008 at 4:44 pm | Link
*****Guys, I think we all need to relax on this issue. Honestly, if you dig deep in your family history, I am sure you will find that at least one of your ancestors came to this country “illegally”. (unless you are 100% “Native American” or Indian). I don’t live in your country, but let me tell you, there is Xenophobia everywhere. There are American fundamental concepts I cannot agree with, such as “Love it or leave it” (how’s that for shortsight) “9/11 changed everything” (90% of people who died wer NOT americans), “We must impose our way of life in other countries” (specially if they have lots of oil). Think about it, your president did not even win the elections… Finally, picture yourself doing dishes (or picking strawberries) for 12 hours straight every day, for 5.75/hr., without any benefits and scared of people around you.
Let’s not forget that their taxes are deducted automatically from their paychecks, so they pay taxes and help America be what it is. If your ancestors were around, they would probably tell you that people back then were not as hostile as you guys are to foreigners.
What’s more “Illegal” a person who rapes children, or poisons your society with drugs (or with propaganda, like CNN) or an individual who does the dirty jobs for next to nothing, pays taxes and is not even allowed to drive to work? and on top of that has to put up with closed minded people like you?
mao fab on June 27th, 2008 at 9:30 pm | Link
@Mao fab NO NO NO most of us in the USA do not have illegal alien ancestors. See for there to be a law broken there first has to be a law. Most of the settlers of this country came here long before there were laws.
Thank god you do not live in our country! Hey love it or leave it yeah why should you stay in a place you hate? The Mexicans don’t they come here to the USA. Anyway if you don’t love where you are then make your plans and legally relocate yourself. Someone above said its not easy to just get your passport and visa and move. No it is not and it should not be. Afterall many people in this country have fought and lost thier lives for our freedoms and it should be work for anyone to gain those freedoms we fight so dearly for! So do it in your own country you don’t like it change it!
yes our president did win the election. The supreme court ruled he did and that is all that can be said.
For the millionth time here illegals do not pay taxes. If they do it is by voluntary donation to the government. Employers cannot hire illegals without facing large fines and even imprisonment.
mark on July 1st, 2008 at 12:42 pm | Link
Just to clarify. Illegal aliens, undocumented, or whatever you want to call them do pay taxes. They get their taxes witheld every paycheck and they cannot file a return, ergo they can never get a reimbursement from the government. So, you can say they don’t file a tax return, but don’t say they don’t pay taxes because they end up paying more taxes than you and me.
On the take or leave it, why is it that there cannot be an adult discussion about the pros and cons of the government and society? It’s not personal, it’s not hate, there are just facts.
Speaking of “freedoms” as Mark calls them, who has died for “our freedoms”? Soldiers in this country die because the government sends them out to mess in other countries’ businesses, nobody has threatened this country since Pearl Harbor. Let’s face the facts.
As for legally relocating, give me a break, the human rights declaration gives you the right to emigrate but not to immigrate.
All these are just points of view, nobody needs to feel personally attacked.
Claudia on July 8th, 2008 at 8:16 am | Link
Claudia,
First lets get this tax thing right once and for all. If an employeer hires an employee who is here in this country illegally they face (if caught)
Here is a link to over 30 cases just this year, http://www.ice.gov/pi/investigations/worksite/newsreleases.htm?searchstring=hiring%20AND%20illegal%20AND%20aliens
showing ice involement with those who hire illegal aliens. If you know of people who are getting taxes withheld who are illegal aliens you can bet 1 of several things are going on. 1. the employer is deducting the taxes but not submitting or reporting them to the Governmnet. 2. The illegal alien has provided the employer with false documentation. 3. The empolyeer is taking a big risk of getting caught hiring illegals. (actually anyone who works in the USA is required to pay taxes, but employeers are not usually goning to risk federal prison for tax sake.
“Speaking of “freedoms” as Mark calls them, who has died for “our freedoms”? Soldiers in this country die because the government sends them out to mess in other countries’ businesses, nobody has threatened this country since Pearl Harbor. Let’s face the facts.”
The fact huh? you say nobody has threatened this country since Pearl Harbor? Where have you been living for the past 30 years with your head in the sand? First lets see back in the 80 was it the Iranians took 50 US hostages. Is that not a fact, is that not a threat. Let remember back to the rein of or great Bill Clinton and the word trade center attack. Is than not a fact, is thatn not a threat. Also in Clintonian era there was a horrific attack on a major military target the USS Cole, is that not fact, is that not a threat. Now least we forget they blew up our buildings hmm that was a whopping 7 years ago now! Is that not fact, and ill save the rheroric here it was a threat.
Now lets talk a little bit about the soilders. Not a one of the soilders sent into war was forced. We unlike almost any others have a totally volunterr army. Are there those soilder who do not beleive in the mission their assigned? Im sure there are specially with those like you who are constantly trying to convince them they are serving no purpose. However If you look the vast majority of our soilders are very proud and beileve whole heartedly in what we are doing. Visiting with one soilder a few years ago there was comment out of his mouth that people have no idea what is going on in Iraq and the media is missleading the people to such a degree he would like to nuke the media. (pretty powerful statement) So that is who is currently fighting for our rights and freedoms. im not sure about you but I don’t want to be muslim that is what they want and is yet another argument).
” human rights declaration” is a document written by the United Nations. We do not go by the opion of the UN when dealing with our own country. Where the UN may have some unguided sorroful clout when it comes to influencing US internation policy they do not when we talk about our homeland. The UN is a worthless and failed attempt at establsihing a one world government. I don’t know about you but the governments have allready take way too much of my money and use it in a wastful maner. They also already tell me what to do way too many times and have overstepped their intent and are curretnly infringing upon the lives of our citizens way too much.
mark on July 8th, 2008 at 9:18 am | Link
at mark:
I understand your points, but there are other issues to consider when adopting such a hostile position. When your ancestors went to what now is the USA (or what was Mexico before your country invaded it and basically stole half of Mexico in the late 1800´s) there were no “white” laws to be broken, but what about the laws that people who lived there had? Same as now. If I wanted to go to the States I could stupidly say, I am not breaking any of MY LAWS. What about US laws? I am sure that the Indians back then wanted your grandparents as much as you want the new immigrants now. Yes nobody called the Mexicans to go to your country, but at least they are there to do the dirty jobs and somehow contribute to the society. Unlike the US Army that goes into weak (oil rich) countries uninvited also, but waging guns, bombs and a lifestyle that not everybody in the world necessarily would like to have.
Facts are facts. Since Hitler invade Poland, (about 70 years ago) your volunteered Army has invaded, or bombed PANAMA, GRENADA, CUBA, HAITI, SOMALIA, SUDAN,BOSNIA, KOSOVO, SERBIA LIBYA, JAPAN, KOREA, VIET NAM, LAOS, CAMBODIA IRAK (twice) AFGHANISTAN. Let´s not forget the declared war on terrorism, on cancer and poverty. In case you did not know, the US spends more in military than the next 21 highest spending countries put together, including China, Russia, Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and Israel. Talk about walking with the chip on the shoulder as the saying goes…Now believing that the US is peace loving country is a bit far from the reality. I think that if the US were a man, instead of a country, he would be schizophrenic to say the least. It would be like a New York thug who has a serious fight a day believing he is a mild guy. Now that´s spoon feeding or plain denial.
Kill a man or 2 in GW Bush´s Texas and you are put to death. Kill scores in the name of War against terrorism and nothing happens to you.
Weapons of mass destructions used as pretext to kill innocent people. NONE FOUND. If they were found, please enlighten me… you would be the first in the world. UN´s Hans Blix came up dry. CIA´s David Kay came up dry. as well as Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair. And Mr. Bin Laden still at large…
Reminds me of one of the great slogans of all time: “Bread and circus for the masses”
By the way, I am not liberal (not being from the US) I would not know how to describe such a person. I am instead, pragmatic and not blind. If with my rhetoric I have offended someone, I apologize, it was not my intention
regards
mao fab
mao fab on July 8th, 2008 at 4:14 pm | Link
America is the only place on earth that allows “illegal” aliens to have so much rights ( does anyone knows the actual definition for illegal…what a joke) and changing the law and culture.
If you move to Japan and live there, you learnt to speak Japanese, when you move to Germany, you learn to speak German but not the case for USA. When you move to US, all American citizen have to learn Spanish…what a joke. So what, so that we can provide better service to the illegals? Are we living in United States of America or ****ing Mexico!!
I feel sorry for the real American as now you have millions of illegal replacing their homes, jobs, and pretty soon the original Americans will be moving to other countries like Canada, and Europe.
byron on September 18th, 2008 at 1:06 pm | Link
Illegal aliens are criminals. People from another county can apply for permission to enter this country and if they are granted permission can enter. They can not trespass.
Yes this is the land of the American dream, but you can not just enter someones country when you feel like it. People from Germany apply for work visa, so why can’t the illegal Mexicans? Because the illegal aliens do not care about the law. All they have to do is apply, and once permission is granted they will can enter this country. Thats it, simple.
Illegal aliens are committing crimes and we should arrest all of them. But only the illegal ones, not the ones with visa’s etc…
Steve Cook from nannycam.Net on November 3rd, 2008 at 11:45 am | Link
“HOLD ON ONE SECOND FOLKS”
Everyone is correct in this blog but blogging is only venting so in order to really change things than you will have to change how our goverment thinks.
I have nothing against mexicans or latinos or canadians but i do have a problem with the illegal gang banging puke who comes over here and sells his drugs, commits crimes, and sucks up all the state, federal money as he can and sends the money back to mexico for more drugs and what have you and if he gets caught, oh well … a free trip back to mexico with a lay over. In simple english, “THATS IS JUST WRONG”. Like i said if you want to change it you have to change the goverment or go vigilante.
DAN on November 3rd, 2008 at 1:12 pm | Link
Too bad the Indians did not have a comprehensive immigration policy !!! ..That would have been kool….that way all you immigrant hating douchebags would be on the other side of the argument.
Adrianne on November 3rd, 2008 at 5:38 pm | Link
To Adrianne:
We are talking about Illegal aliens, not legal ones. So your comment that we are immigrant hating douchebags is wrong. YOU ARE WRONG. I HATE Illegal aliens, NOT legal aliens. I am a 7th generation American and 7 generations ago my ancestors came here legally so I like immigration as long as its legal. That is the difference.
Steve on November 3rd, 2008 at 6:07 pm | Link
Over the last few decades we got rich and strong and stuff coz we had an immigration filter to get really smart folks in who would work thier butt off in pursuit of the american dream thus creating wealth. But then we got lazy and wanted someone else to do the manual stuff - hence the illegals - what better way to manipulate them then letting them believe that they too can be legit and have the dream one day. It simply gives leverage to politicians to treat them as a bucket and use them for votes - (The legals - think and measure - and vote as they see fit). But again in an economy like this if someone wants to do the manual part he has to actually compete with a illegal on wages and stuff - just bloody debasing the intrinsic citizen to make sure the issue is kept alive for the sake of politics
him on November 3rd, 2008 at 6:27 pm | Link
Who was here second? The white man or the Mexican? Cause American Indians where here first. So I guess we all need to leave. Did you not pay attention in history class? That never seems to be important.
If my parents had not meet 32 years ago, I would not be here today. My mom’s Canadian and my dad’s guatemalan. I look white but speak perfect spanish. That helped me realize that everybody hates everybody else or at least that you think you are better than another race. White people think they are better than hispanic, hispanic people think they are better than African American. You start judging by race instead of individuals and you start missing out on good stuff
jayde on November 3rd, 2008 at 10:15 pm | Link
I am half Pueblo and half Mexican. From both sides I am close to 100% North American Indian. I am a red-brown man.
There is effectively no difference between Southewestern US tribes and Northwestern Mexican tribes, Uto-Aztecs are all ethnically and linguistically one people.
Mexican and Mesoamerican peoples are North American Indians, their bloodlines originated in Northern Utah thousands of years ago.
In that context, European migrants claiming “7 generations” in this land are laughably pathetic.
The US usurped our lands and divided us along arbitrary borders, in clear violation of our rights and the sovereignty of our nations. All to favor European settlers who ignored the existing customs and rules of the land, migrating into this continent forcibly without the consent or approval of the locals.
Mexicans and Mesoamericans are just following the same routes and migratory patterns that have existed for thousands of years, as they should, because they are the original peoples of this land.
Europeans immigrants settled by force, entered uninspected, brought disease and violence, had a total disregard or even understanding of the local law, never integrated or learned the local languages.
They were the original wet backs, nobody wanted them, not even in Europe.
Pilgrims first illegally migrated to the Netherlands through the use of bribery, from the start they showed no respect for the law. Most of them were deported, but still re-entered the country through illegal means.
Most of you are the proud descendents of those people and have the nerve of calling the rightful sons and daughters of this land “illegal” or “immigrants”.
Thunder-Knife on November 4th, 2008 at 1:24 am | Link
Hey Numbnuts:
Any one in a country illegally is an ‘ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT’!!! Did you graduate middle school??? A 10 yr old could understand this!!!
If you don’t have the necessary documentation to be LEGAL…..Then you are ILLEGAL!!!! Also, as you are ILLEGAL, you have no rights to work or to claim welfare etc.etc.
So….Get out of my country and go back to yours!!!
PATRIOT WITH A GUN! on November 4th, 2008 at 5:07 am | Link
I hope Thunder-Knife´s well- versed remarks enlighten the likes of Patriot with a gun..
But judging from the level of his rhetoric, I would assume it is too much to discern for such a spoon-fed, short-sighted intellect.
If the problem is welfare and federal funds, I doubt that any one would emigrate just because of the benefits of living like a pariah. Which is not even the case, because illegal immigrants are not entitled to any benefits, even tho taxes are automatically deducted from their paychecks.
If the problems is drug selling, even if the immigrants were not here, someone would be selling the substances to the pukes of your society (maybe someone in your family).
I think the problem can be controlled by the government with the proper policies. It has been done on other rich and developed countries.
It won´t happen in the States, because your government is busy imposing sanctions, declaring war, invading, killing, overspending your savings on the war on terrorism, and lately, convincing you that a black african immigrant is going to be your president….
mao on November 4th, 2008 at 8:30 am | Link
well here is where we stand, 12,000.000 illegals sapping the u.s. like a buzzard on roadkill and the only way to stop that is either you move the roadkill and bury it or you can chase the buzzard away and stay with the roadkill so the buzzard doesn’t return. in this case we havn’t stayed with the roadkill and the buzzards keep returning, another words what ever laws they pass and emplement will not discourage the illegal drug running, savage, sneaky, filth, blood sucking, buzzards from comeing back and they will continue to feed on the system unless we have laws regarding the employers, state welfare sytems, education systems and health care systems on a federal level meaning it should be a criminal offense to offer aid or hire if they are not legal. we are at fault for letting this happen. a drivers license, taxs,practicaly everything in the u.s. can be done in the other language. we make it easy…….
DAN on November 4th, 2008 at 3:17 pm | Link
“Patriot with a gun”, I can’t get out of this country and go back to mine.
As I said, I am a Pueblo Native, I was born in New Mexico, as my father, his father and generations of my people for thousands of years.
This is my country, in more ways than a European migrant as yourself could possibly understand.
It is sad how the descendents of the original European wet backs are still as ignorant of the local people as their ancestors were.
“Dan”, “savage” and “filthy”, where have I heard that one before?
Should We also offer 12 pounds per “illegal” scalp, maybe give them a few smallpox infected blankets too?
Your people have been “sapping” the blood off our lands for centuries and giving nothing back to their real owners.
What should We do about you?
The Nez, Ute, Kaw, Tonkawa and other nations have tried to fend off the never ending thirst of the white man for Native Land.
It hasn’t worked.
Your people are like buzzards sapping off our blood and raping the land.
Thunder-Knife on November 5th, 2008 at 10:26 am | Link
To Thunder-Knife.
The year is 2008, and I looked at my abstract deed showing ALL owners of the land before me and nowhere did the indians own it. Show me title work, a deed, or some homeowner paperwork showing the indian owned the land.
Seperate note:
It seems that the indian is the racist people because they believe they are in their own nation. Well, they are not. The nation is the United States. The nation is broken down into 50 states plus DC. But these indians think they are above the state law and can do what they want, and that is so very wrong.
The only people in many states that can have a casino is someone on an indian reservation. On public lakes, the only people in Minnesota and Michigan that can fish by netting is by indians, but remember its a public lake. But if a European American or African American or Asian American tried to open a casino OR fish by netting we would get arrested. What a bunch of crap. The indians are getting special treatment. I DO NOT believe they should get special treatment because of their race but I also do not believe anyone should disciminate against them either. The idians are doing things and getting away with it because of their race, if any other race did the same thing we would get stopped and/or arrested. That is unfair and racist.
Steve on November 5th, 2008 at 11:04 am | Link
Ok you immigrant haters, what do you think about your president being a black son of an immigrant? a hard to swallow pill I imagine for all the rednecks. enjoy
mao on November 5th, 2008 at 11:41 am | Link
I believe that that either way we voted it really didn’t matter. they both sang pretty songs to get there just as the last prez’s did for the last 20 years and take a strong look at things now compared to back then.
we are no better off now than then.
Arizona just voted down they’re immigration proposition so i think instead of deporting the illegals back to mexico we should send them to Arizona and build the wall around that state and than maybe they would sing a different tune.
DAN on November 5th, 2008 at 12:16 pm | Link
I am feed up and sick and tired of hearing about people defending Illegal Immigration!
I am sick and tired of hearing the old fall back excuse of “Yeah but your relatives at some point immigrated here so that makes you the offspring of Immigrants”….some how, some way this is supposed to justify people crossing the border into our country Illegallay?
It is supposed to give justification to all those ****ers who come to our shores in overloaded boats and demand that they be given full rights as an American Citizen (Social Security, Healthcare, Schooling, access to Law Enforcement and Public Services)?
I think NOT!!!
It also galls me to NO end when I see and hear people from other Countries who are not even Legal Cititzens, who have not voted in an American Election, who are here on Work Visas or some other semi-legal way…put this country down, call Americans dirty filthy vile names and say that this country is the “Great Satan” or “The Great Evil” or “**** America” and wave the flag of the country they are from around.
I am also very much against any and all Churches who falunt the Law and say that they will use a place of worship as a sanctuary for people who are here illegally and thumb their “noses” blantantly at the system (Funny how some of these very same churches are the ones that have gone through the scandal of molestation of young Children over the past numbe of years)
So call me an “Immigrant Hater” to which I say **** YOU!
I am not an “Immigrant Hater”…far, far from it you Jackass!
Just because I as an American…no, wait…make that American Citizen who was Born and raised in this country from parents who were also American Citizens and whose Great Grandparents LEGALLY immigrated to this Country back in the early part of the 20th Century from different parts of Europe….am against Illegal Immigration (Ohhhhh that’s right! Last time I looked up the word “Illegal”? It meant breaking a Law)!!
I am all for Legal Immigration and support and respect those people who Legally (yes, I said Legally..which means to do something that is Lawful and proper) Immigrate to this country and go through the whole American Citizenship program THAT is what truely makes this a great Country.
“Steve”, Indians had their own system of land rights.
In most cases, the Illegal European wet backs ignored them, but even in cases where they recognized them in writing, they still went ahead to merrily break them anyhow.
Indian land rights and their standing as nations have historically stood Constitutional scrutiny and been ratified:
“Indian Nations had always been considered as distinct, independent political communities, retaining their original natural right, as the undisputed possessors of the soil . . . The very term ‘nation,’ so generally applied to them, means ‘a people distinct from others.’”
- Chief Supreme Court Justice, John Marshall, 1832
Regardless of that, here’s a short list, not inclusive by any means, where Indians were recognized as title holders with land rights by the white men.
Of course those treaties were later illegally broken and Indian lands were stolen just the same:
1763 - The Appalachian Royal Proclamation
1795 - Treaty of Greenville.
1814 - Treaty of Fort Jackson
1832 - Treaty of Fort Armstrong
1835 - Treaty of New Echota
1858 - 1865 - Ponca Treaties
1871 - Indian Appropriations Act
1887 - Dawes General Allotment Act
1898 - Curtis Act
All of those showed land titles and deeds of ownerships for various Indian tribes. All rescinded and violated by the European migrants.
I don’t have an opinion about casinos, our clans do not own any.
I also doubt you can have a very informed opinion either, given that you seem to be mostly ignorant about these kinds of issues.
Thunder-Knife on November 5th, 2008 at 4:50 pm | Link
I think we are getting of track here guys. isn’t this blog about illegal mexicans or immigrants, if you really want to talk about the indians than fine, i really have some good discrimination stories for ya however i really don’t think everyone has all day to read them so maybe we can stay on track with whats at issue here.
DAN on November 6th, 2008 at 8:56 am | Link
@ steve and Thunder knife… its called a reservation. its what the USA gave back to the indians who choose not to be civilized and join the USA and its properity.
mark on November 7th, 2008 at 2:17 pm | Link
I really think us palefaces shoudn’t work for them or any other person from another country because it is a fact that they discriminate on us more than we do of them and that is easly proven but heck if they even get so much as a bad haircut from a white person than its discrimination or if we don’t print something in their language its discrimination so there it is. and as far as the white people go, we can’t even yell the d word for it will go nowhere..
DAN on November 7th, 2008 at 4:09 pm | Link
This complaint begs the question whether you have ever done anything ILLEGAL? You should turn yourself in right away since you’re such a deity of the law.
Don Ausman on November 25th, 2008 at 2:17 pm | Link
Whatever, my two cents is this….Illegal is illegal. Yes I have done illegal things, like, say, driving too fast. And guess what? I got a ticket, I paid it in court, and followed the procedures we are supposed to as law abiding citizens…obviously if you were born somewhere else, nothing applies. If the resources they used to make sure I stay at 70 MPH every morning were used to solve these types of problems, they would go away. We seem to revel in being policed, like complete fools. But cringe when outsiders get the same treatment. These people come here, get cash under the table, and then send it back to Paco and Maria in Mexico..if that doesnt seem to be a problem, all by itself, you are a drooling idiot.
America used to need people to join us so that we could grow. Thats not needed anymore. Common sense tells you that, and so does google earth. We have enough/way too many people here NOW.
Call them what they are, law breakers who need to be deported. I dont care how many kids you had either. Everybody goes back.
And I agree with Dan, Native Americans are irrelevant in this scenario.
It’s too bad we can not forward this discussion to our politicians as they have tended to ignore the majority of the opinions of their constituents. First of all, Thunder-Knife I’m sorry for your anger - it’s not going to get you anywhere. The past is past and that will never change. If you truely want to “go back to your heritage” please close all of the Indian owned casinos. It’s also true that my ancestors came here from Europe as indentured servants and if they tried today they would most likely be denied entry.
We also need to remember that although the majority of the illegal [insert your own word here] are from Mexico, many are not even from Latin America. That’s part of the problem - we can not identify their country of origin and those people are NOT here to work. The media has conveniently ignored the prayer blankets left by Muslims entering the the country via our south border.
For anyone who believes that the illegals who are working are doing not doing any harm may be correct on a very surface level. But remember this: they are working under the table and not paying taxes or have false identify papers, many of which are stolen from a US citizen ie identify theft. The US federal government is not set up, equipped or willing to deal with this problem. Just talk to the woman in Texas who had multiple people in different states using her Social security number for their own. She only noticed this when she thought she was getting a tax refund but got a notice that she owned a lot of money! Common sense tells us that this should have been a red flag at the IRS but NOTHING was done.
As a US citizen I am concerned about my government’s lack of concern regarding who or what is gaining entry into this country; from the illegal him/herself to drugs to human slave traffickers I am also concerned about what those people go through to get here:
a: June 7 CNN.com 15 Chinese were found in an SUV in a Texas border town. They each paid $55,000 to get here.
b: May 25 NBC17.com Illegal driver of a van - driving on the wrong side of the road - killed three people and severely injured two others. He was charged with DWI and not having a license also.
c: June 5 NBC17.com US Border Patrols estimate that illegals account for 1 in every 20 workers with 206,000 living in NC (where I live). This is having serious implications in my state as many of these people are the wives and children of the illegal worker. It costs about $7000 per year to educate a child in NC - do the math.
d: 6/24 CNN.COM 26 (illegal) members of the MS-13 gang were arrested in Charlotte NC. Wow! those are nice people!
Now these are only 4 articles that I pulled from news sources - on the other side there is estimated 500 THOUSAND immigrants defying deportation orders (Nov 14 WRAL.com). These are people our government knows are here and is unable or unwilling to do anything about. Remember, many of the 9/11 terrorists (oooohhh - buzz word) should not have been here in the first place or overstayed their visas.
On a personal note I love our naturalized citizens or our guests. I love the cultural and ethnic differences they bring. I enjoy learning about their native countries, the food, the traditions - and I live in a small town! But I want to know who my neighbors are and if there is a problem then the police, the government etc etc will have the appropriate means to find them. If we allow people to come here - or to any country - without proper and correct documentation then there is no incentive for that person to even use their correct name. Get caught - get deported - just come back with a new identity. All this has done is to make every person who is legal a 2nd class citizen as that person has the expectation of using the same identify for their entire life.
I live in a small community which is being over run with illegals but which also has a large farming community of legal workers so I issue a challenge to those who think that the 6 billion people of the world should have carte blanche to come here, please enter your home address and directions as those people will need a place to stay for free along with food - and I don’t want them in my house.
Becky on January 1st, 2009 at 10:18 am | Link
Well, first of all i would say that you should not have any problem with them, they are just human too, looking for a better life. Secondly, such a complaint from a slutty person doesn’t matter any way, Look at the profile pic…shameless…..First look in to your dirty character before pointing others out….Seriously, Some one once said that it takes less that 10 secs to judge a person, and it took me even less, i read the TitLe, publisher and Saw your profile pic and figured out that its people like you who create chaos in this world, So, first clean ur self out before posing such dissenting opinions. If i have offended anyone in anyway i apologize, but as a profitable member of a society i am just laying me opinion. Hope someone learns atleast something outta ThiS !
HeLLo! on January 3rd, 2009 at 2:37 pm | Link
hello, “hello” no comment except do you have some room in your house for some more people looking for a better life, they need a place to stay and hide and i figured that you were up to the task. there is about 1.9 million or is that too much.
wheeler on January 3rd, 2009 at 6:47 pm | Link
Well, Wheeler, those people might be undocumented, but they atleast know how to earn living, they don’t need a mansion to live in all they need is an open hearted public to accept them, they will live as people have been living since thousands of years, opening up ur heart is good enough, they don’t need your houses to hide or sleep. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY WANT !
HeLLo! on January 4th, 2009 at 6:14 pm | Link
Hello,
was that a yes or no, your statement above is a classic dance around the get away from answer, so I ask again, do you have room in your house for 1.9 million? If you do than we will put signs all along the border and posters here in the U.S. in every state adviseing all the immigrants where to go and hide because you know what!!!
“AMERICA IS MY HOME” and I don’t have any room in my house for them. NO EXCUSES anymore. tresspassing in my house is illegal but apparently what is happening is the real definition to illegal is changeing so if i go say rob a bank somewhere than it really isn’t illegal but something else right ????
wheeler on January 5th, 2009 at 12:44 am | Link
U THINK U SOUND SMART & UR GRAMMAR IS GOOD , HOWEVER, U MAKE NO SENSE….CRACKER!!!!
Heather Hayes on January 14th, 2009 at 3:14 am | Link
THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT WANT TO TALK NEGATIVE ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT AMERICA AND SEE HOW MUCH OF OUR TAX MONEY IS GOING TO WELFARE, THEN YOU WILL SEE HOW MANY AMERICANS ARE SITTING ON THEIR BUTTS, DOING NOTHING AND LIVING ON MY TAX MONEY. HOWEVER, ATLEAST MEXICANS WILL WORK!!!!!!! REGARDLESS WHETHER THEY ARE LEGAL, OR NOT, THEY DONT COME OVER HERE AND BECOME USELESS!
THERE’S PLENTY OF NEGATIVE TALK CONCERNING IMMIGRANTS. HOWEVER, IF U TAKE N2 CONSIDERATION HOW WE’RE WASTING OUR TAX DOLLARS ON BULL***, THEN PERHAPS YOU’LL RECOGNIZE OUR INABILITY 2 REFORM A DECENT BUDGET 4 OUR ECONOMY..
LEGAL OR NOT THEY’RE NOT USELESS TO US.
Heather Hayes on January 14th, 2009 at 3:32 am | Link
Well, Wheeler first of all you can suck it, yeah there is a whole freakin world for people to live without being questioned. And Yeah….Illegal immigrants have every right to earn living through positive medians. Just remember WHEELER that you just didn’t pop out of this earth. YOU too have migrated from some where…..Shis You SOund like some maniac that just got laid off….anyways….think positive and you will be fine…..!
HeLLo on January 14th, 2009 at 9:48 pm | Link
And Yeah..I donot mean to demote anyone….Just sharing my opinion and thoughts…People aren’t bad its people who make them look bad ! Just think about it……….
HeLLo on January 14th, 2009 at 9:49 pm | Link
well if i migrated than it was at a time when this country wasn’t even established yet. back in the 13 & 14 hundreds i don’t recall any national borders, titles for land, or any kind of ownership for land but the laws exist today but go ahead keep comeing over the border because one day this country is going to but the brakes on you all and make it real hard for ya. the southern refugee’s someday will bite the hands that feed them. at least in this country we don’t chop peoples heads off and be proud of it. hopefully the southern refugee’s
will choke on the same stuff they’re shoveling.
when an american goes to mexico, they go to jail or get shot at, after all they just jailed an 88 year old man from wa. state on his way down to have some dentistry done along with his son and bam they accused him of soliciting pornography..
they absolutly are a bunch of cheese dicks down there arn’t they…
wheeler on January 30th, 2009 at 5:38 pm | Link
I am frankly not surprised that this thread is still alive.
What does surprise me is the poor quality of the ant-immigrant arguments, which can be mostly summarized as inane ramblings.
To “wheeler”:
You are either profoundly ignorant, a pathological liar or both.
No one in your family on the European side could have “migrated … back in 13 and 14 hundreds”.
The first European colonists arrived to the Americas in 1492, and the first European colony in what We call the United States today was established in 1607 (Jamestown, VA, see http://www.historian.org/local/jamstwnva.htm), an area which native tribes had already settled since at least 1200 AD.
Also, national borders did exist well prior to European colonists arriving to North America.
You could learn about this and other topics related to Native American Nations at http://www.nanations.com/ and at your local Community College.
Even if We ignore this fact, national borders and other legal minutia never stopped the waves of illegal European migrants and their incesant thirst for the land of others.
Let’s just consider that California, Texas, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona and Wyoming were relatively recently stolen by means of illegal aggression from the same Mexicans that most in this thread call “illegal immigrants”.
I’ll let President Abraham Lincoln and General Ulysses Grant make my case; you can argue with them if you so chose:
“We charge the President with usurping the war-making power… with seizing a country… which had been for centuries, and was then in the possession of the Mexicans.”
“I do not think there was ever a more wicked war than that waged by the United States on Mexico … I have always believed that it was on our part most unjust … We had no claim on Mexico … I am always ashamed of my country when I think of that invasion.”
I can’t comment on the 88-year old being jailed in Mexico, since I don’t know enough to make an educated comment, nor will contest your seemingly deep, first hand knowlege of Mexican “cheese” penises.
To “Becky”:
I really don’t know how to get this through, please read some of my older posts: My clan runs no Casinos, and there is no “secret” Indian organization I could ask to “please close all the Indian owned casinos”.
I do find your fixation with some Indians owning casinos morbid, while apparently not having any problems with places like Atlantic City and Las Vegas. How dare Indians do as the white man does !!???
Also, you seem to think that identity theft is solely associated to illegal immigration, unfortunately statistical samplings by the Federal Trade Commission seem to stubbornly contradict your well researched personal findings (See 2006 Identity Theft Survey Report, *UNABRIDGED*).
I could not agree more on some of your other points.
I do not believe everyone should have carte blanche to illegally migrate to America.
Those of us native to this land tried to stop European illegal wetbacks back in the 1500s but We could not.
Thunder-Knife on February 23rd, 2009 at 12:02 am | Link
TO THUNDER KNIFE. YOU CAN CALL ME WHAT EVER YOU WANT BUT IT ALL STANDS ON CULTURAL DIFFRENCES,
FOR ONE I DIDN’T THINK WE WERE TALKING ABOUT INDIANS BUT O.K. WE CAN LEAN THAT WAY IF YOU WANT.
TO THIS DAY THE INDIANS ARE VERY DISCRIMINATEING, I KNOW, I USE TO WORK FOR THE INDIANS ALONG WITH A LOT OF NON NATIVE EMPLOYEES TO THE BEST I CAN GUESS IS THAT THE INDIANS SCINCE THEY ARE ON RESERVATION LAND ARE ALOWED TO DISCRIMINATE SO I HAVE ONE THING TO SAY FOR THEM.”DON’T STEP OFF THE RESERVATION” AND HOPE TO BE TREATED FAIRLY BECAUSE WHAT GOES AROUND WILL CERTAINLY COME AROUND. NOW ABOUT THE MEXICANS..
I HAVE TO IMAGINE THAT YOU BELIEVE THE DRUG DEALERS AND CRIMINALS WHO ENTER THE U.S. ILLEGALY IS JUSTIFIED.
FOR ONE LOOK AT THEIR COUNTRY, THEY CAN’T EVEN SEEM TO GET CLOSE TO ANY KIND OF DEMACRACY, JUST CORRUPTION. IF THE ONLY ONES THAT CAN TURN THAT COUNTRY AROUND IS THE DRUG CARTELS THAN I REALLY FEEL SORRY FOR THEM. I INVITE YOU TO GO TO JUAREZ AND HAVE LUNCH AND TAKE A REAL GOOD LOOK AND SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING THEIR. TAKE BINACULARS JUST IN CASE YOU CAN’T SEE PAST YOUR NOSE. THE SAME THING THERE IS HAPPENING ALL OVER MEXICO AND SOON THE U.S..
AGAIN READ THE NEWS OF THE LATEST BUST, 750 CARTEL MEMBERS INSIDE THE U.S. SO TO PUT IT IN A NUTSHELL JUST LIKE VIETNAM. “WHO IS AND WHO ISN’T “AND ” WHO DO YOU TRUST” THERE HAS TO BE TIGHTER REGULATIONS ON IMMIGRATION OTHERWISE THE U.S. WILL STAND FOR URINAL AND ****TER. MAYBE IF WE DEPORT THE ILLEGAL MEXICANS ONTO INDIAN RESERVATIONS THAN MAYBE THERE JUST MIGHT BE A DIFFRENT VEIWPOINT ON YOUR PART ALSO IF IT WASN’T FOR THE EUROPEAN MIGRATION YOU MIGHT BE SHOOTING ARROWS AND CHUCKING SPEARS TO THIS VERY DAY SO YOU CAN STOP THAT EXCUSE ANYTIME BUB. AND AS FAR AS THE NATIONAL BORDERS IN THE 1400′S JUST EXACTLY WHO NOMINATED THE BORDERS ANYWAY. DID THE INDIAN OR MEXICAN GO TO THE COAST AND SAY “THIS IS OUR BORDER SO NO ONE BETTER CROSS IT”
Wheeler on March 1st, 2009 at 8:09 pm | Link
Lets get back to illegal immigrants. They are criminals, and they do cause unemployment and also lower wages. You see many companies employe them (hotels, and also companies like Hormel in MN, and Theworkconnection). These companies get enough employees at a sub-standard wage because the illegals won’t complain. So if there weren’t any illegal immigrants working at the same company they would have to raise waiges to something livable or close to it for us Americans. The wage at some of these I know are 7 or 8 an hour. That is piss-poor and too low. At least 10 or 12 an hour is better. Since they can get people for low 7 an hour they have no incentive to raise the wages.
Best regards from allhomebased.com
Steve on March 2nd, 2009 at 10:30 am | Link
.
to Thunder-Knife
At last an educated and high caliber point of view in this thread!
It is refreshing to know that the likes of wheeler and his lot are not the only representation of US opinions..
I could not agree with you more on the Mexican-American War.
Also about the first-hand knowledge some people seem to have about the “cheese” in the Mexican virile members, makes me wonder why they are so scared of them..
mao on March 9th, 2009 at 6:29 pm | Link
Let’s start with a broad summary on how illegal immigration is or can affect americans. Here are just some of the side affects of illegal immigration:
ACT I TERRORISM
easy conduit for terrorists entering the USA
massive escalation in crime
surge in foreign national prisoners to support for years
increases Balkanization of US
increases multiculturalism/segregation/divisiveness instead of the American melting pot
increases desire for Aztlan (reclaiming SW states for Mexico)
increasing number of traffic accidents
main contributor to surging US population
dramatic impact on society and infrastructure, including education
destruction of fragile ecosystems in American SW
main cause of emergency rooms and hospitals closing as well as service cut backs
introduction of third world diseases
increased welfare costs
massive costs to society – over and above contributions
“… the Border Patrol arrested 39,215 so-called “OTMs,” other-than-Mexicans, along the Southwest border. In 2004, the number jumped to 65,814.
Those figures worry intelligence and Homeland Security officials, who say al-Qaeda leaders want to smuggle operatives and weapons of mass destruction across the nation’s porous land borders. James Loy, deputy secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, told Congress last week, “Several al-Qaeda leaders believe operatives can pay their way into the country through Mexico and also believe illegal entry is more advantageous than legal entry for operational security reasons.”
T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, says the Border Patrol has reliable intelligence that there are terrorists living in South America, assimilating the culture and learning the language in order to blend in with Mexicans crossing the border.
we really don’t know who comes into this country illegally over the Southwest border. This is one of the big problems.
The independent 9/11 Commission’s report warned in August that the challenge for national security in an age of terrorism is to prevent the very few people who may pose overwhelming risks from entering or remaining in the United States undetected. And that’s a ruthless task along these stretches of border in the Southwest.
ACT II CRIME
when an illegal alien does something really horrific, such as when illegal aliens killed Denver Police Officer Don Young and Los Angeles County Deputy David March, or when one dragged his girlfriend to death behind his car, we rarely hear about the crime being committed specifically by illegal aliens and because of lack of evidence left behind because most aliens are not imputed in the system
Exactly how many Americans are we willing to allow to be molested, raped, and murdered by illegal aliens to save ten cents on a head of lettuce?
Deborah Schurman-Kauflin in CNN interview
Based on a one-year in-depth study, a researcher estimates there are about 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an average of four victims each.
Deborah Schurman-Kauflin of the Violent Crimes Institute in Atlanta analyzed 1,500 cases from January 1999 through April 2006 that included serial rapes, serial murders, sexual homicides and child molestation committed by illegal immigrants.
She found that while the offenders were located in 36 states, most were in states with the highest numbers of illegal immigrants. California had the most offenders, followed by Texas, Arizona, New Jersey, New York and Florida. Considering the violence and cultural education of the people of south that we can see how crime spikes upward not to mention other crimes such as the drug trade.
ACT III EMPLOYMENT
Illegal aliens are not just picking lettuce and digging ditches any more. It wasn’t that long ago that being a dry-waller, brick-layer, house framer, painter, roofer, carpet layer, plumber, or electrician was a decently compensated, middle class trade. Now it is increasingly becoming the work for illegal aliens at far less than the free market rate. While illegal alien workers are only a small portion of many of those job categories their willingness to work at dramatically lower rates artificially drags down the compensation for all workers
ACT IV SOLUTION.
Well, we could simply adopt Mexico’s immigration policies but that would be too cruel and very un-American. While I may agree with former US Congresswoman Barbara Jordan from Texas in “those who should not be here will be required to leave” and may be personally inclined to round up all illegal aliens and their families and return them to their home countries, making them get in line for becoming legal immigrants, I recognize that that is an unworkable and unrealistic solution for a variety of reasons.
The biggest obstacle to such a draconian solution is political, as most of our politicians do not have the fortitude or integrity to enforce the laws of the land. For this reason alone it is unrealistic, unless we vote them all out. But that would take time and in the meantime the tsunami keeps pouring in and the collateral damage keeps mounting.
If you don’t think that aspect is important, go back up to the CRIME and TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS sections and start clicking on the links of Americans who were molested, raped, killed, and murdered by an illegal alien. Especially take note of the crimes that were committed by an illegal alien who was previously deported or who should have been previously deported.
Never mind what the pro immigrants say above wheeler, your o.k.
I base everything on fact and these are the facts and we will let them speak for themselves.
Hows that for an educated response mao and thunder knife.
Ranger
Ranger on March 9th, 2009 at 9:41 pm | Link
welcome Ranger, I hope we can elevate the level of this thread by having unbiased opinions and facts. Not just the spoon-fed rhetoric that mr. wheeler seems to enjoy. But hey, it’s ok let ’s leave the man alone, he does not know any better. At least he can find a savior in you..
ACT I TERRORISM
Where have you been for the last 3 years? No terrorist were found in terrorist land (Iraq). Not by the CIA appointed official. Not by the UN appointed inspector. NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION FOUND! Now you want to find them in Mexico…. WAKE UP! . You quote several Al Qaeda leaders statements.
When did you start believing the bad guys?
Give me facts, not just a spoon-fed mentality, just like wheeler and his kind..
ACT II CRIME
When I hear that word, only American names come to my mind. Charlie Manson, Kip Kinkel, et all. Juan Lopez probably did something horrific, but it escapes my memory at the moment.
I believe the problem here is that some Mexicans supply the drugs that fuel those crimes. But those crimes are committed by all races, and the drug supply will be in charge of other races, should the Mexicans stop doing it…
I am sure there are Mexicans criminals, but I would like you to answer this: If they left your country, all crime related problems would be solved? NOT
So that’s not the solution then
ACT IV SOLUTION
Laughable, pathetic and impossible.
I think the problem can be controlled by the government with the proper policies. It has been done on other rich and developed countries.
It won´t happen in the States, because your government is busy imposing sanctions, declaring war, invading, killing, overspending your savings on the war on terrorism, and lately, convincing you that a black African immigrant is going to the president who will save the US.
however well written your posture was, the content was shait my friend…
mao on March 9th, 2009 at 10:27 pm | Link
mao… Unbiased opinions? what? all opinions are biased simply by definition of opinion.
“opinion - a message expressing a belief about something; the expression of a belief that is held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof; “his opinions appeared frequently on the editorial page” ”
REF: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Opinions&ei=FZ62ScK8C4HasAOG2vjyCA&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
And mao why don’t you ever bring verifyable facts to the table? You never cite any references you just write your own Biased Opinion becuse all opinion is biased by definition!
mark on March 10th, 2009 at 10:11 am | Link
“Ranger”, sorry for the delayed response.
It took me some time to realize that you were not attempting to be humorous with your post.
Given the references to less than verifiable sources like “T.J. Bonner” and your post being divided in acts, I originally it was a clever, subtle reference to a “Farsa”.
I will respond to each of your “acts”, as time permits.
Act I - Terrorism:
This is a fallacy.
According to the DOJ / USCIS and the 911 Commission Report:
- None of the 9/11 hijackers entered the US crossing our borders as illegal immigrants.
- None entered the country through the US-Mexico border. (see Footnote 31, page 563: White House report, Office of Homeland Security)
- All of the 19 hijackers flew into the US with temporary / visitor / tourist visas.
- 17 presented their unaltered, regular passports, 2 might have altered their travel histories and were still granted visas !!!. (see Footnote 32, page 563: Saudi Passports)
- The mastermind behind the plan, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, never entered the US at all. (see Pages 73, 145 and others)
You cite this report in your argument, but you do not seem to have read it.
The facts in the source you “quote” directly contradict your argument that somehow stricter control of the US/Mexico border would have had any impact in preventing the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
I obtained a free copy from my local county library, and so can you. Ask for ISBN 0-393-32671-3.
It will save you the embarrasment of quoting sources you have no firsthand knowlege about.
Still, I researched your claim that there was somehow a link between “illegals” and terrorism on US soil and I was unable to find any acts of terrorism linked to “illegal immigration” in the history of the US.
Here are some of other notorious terror acts in recent memory:
- Twin Tower bombings: Eyad Ismoil, Ramzi Yousef, both flew into the US, both Al-Qaida recruits. Yousef is thought to have been recruited by the CIA, see Labeviere, ISBN 1892941066
-Oklahoma City bombing: Terry Nichols born in Michigan, Timothy McVeigh born in New York
-Unabombings: Theodore Kaczynski born in Illinois
-Olympic Bombings: Eric Rudolph born in Florida
From this I can only logically conclude that:
- We should stop financing and training terrorists groups.
Al-Qaeda was created, financed and trained by the US State Department through the CIA under Operation Cyclone during the Afghan/Soviet War. (see George Crile: “Charlie Wilson’s War…”, ISBN 0871138549, as you appear to be too lazy to read, at least watch the movie, not terribly historically accurate, but entertaining)
- At the very least, We should inspect passports at airports and cross check them against lists of known terrorists.
- We should keep an eye on domestic terrorists, all of them apparently white and born in the US.
Claiming that somehow deporting Mexicans and Mesoamericans would have prevented terrorist attacks is inanely ridiculous and shows very poor reasoning skills.
Thunder-Knife on March 31st, 2009 at 6:19 pm | Link
Is Thunder-Knife your real name?
Anyway, illegals are ruining America. They bring down wages and no one can disagree with that. If a hotel hires illegal’s at below livable wages the illegals don’t complain or they can get fired and/or deported. Then the hotel can be greedy and pay below decent livable wages and then the citizens lose out on those jobs. If all illegals would leave within a year, this economy would be so much better off.
They decide they are above the law and sneak into our country, and that is a crime. They send their kids to school and that should be arrested deported as they are trespassing and also taking our tax dollars. They broke our laws by trespassing into our country. I don’t like trespassers in my country or in my house of which both are illegal. They prove they don’t want to follow the law of the land. Every country in the world has a process to allow people to enter their country legally, but these people break that law.
People from Germany and India normally follow the law, but all illegal’s (no matter where they are from) are inferior class of people as they decide they are above our law and sneak into our country.
Most illegal’s are from Mexico.
Now there are many legal Mexicans that immigrated legally and they must feel betrayed by their Mexican countryman and women who didn’t follow laws.
SUMMARY:
ALL I want is for people to follow the law and not to trespass into our country illegally.
PS: This is just as much as my country as any Indian (native American). My family legally immigrated here in 1892 on my fathers side, from England. My mothers side much later, in the 1930’s from Germany, but they did it legally. Indians say they are native american, but I am also native american as I originated in this country. (the first person to own my land where I live was not an indian, but the us government, so I am native to that piece of land, not the indian).
AND its wrong that someone comes here illegally and they have a child in this country, then their child is a citizen. That is so morally wrong. Their entire family (kids included) should all be deported if they or their parents were ever illegal aliens.
Steve Cook on April 1st, 2009 at 8:14 am | Link
Steve ,you couldn’t be more right, I have been trying to get that very point across to thunder knife and mao but they keep talking the excuses and justify all this illegal immigration and they also keep putting the blame on the americans for our showdy economy like the illegal immigrants have had no hand in it..
I don’t even think that they know that there is a diffrence between IMMIGRATION and ILLEGAL and maybe its time they look the true definitions between the two and there is a diffrence but they will just deny that to so there is really no chance of argueing about that at this point.
Oh yes maybe thunder knife or mao can talk about the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, I do believe that the u.s. did pay mexico for the land even though not as much as first offerd before hostilities began and about how the mexicans stole some of the land from the indians to begin with but a treaty was signed and now it seems like they would like to renig on the treaty,
also they never mention the one thing that i am against is the drug cartels and criminals running amok in our country and i believe that mao also had given them an excuse also, uhm, lets see, if your country didn’t need drugs than the cartels wouldn’t bring them.
“WHAT A LOAD THAT IS” How about reversing that and say if the cartels wouldn’t bring them than we wouldn’t need them.
I am friends with some of the LEGAL IMMIGRANTS where I live and they live like normal Americans should,pay their bills, taxs, live modestly and they don’t pack a 2 bedroom apartment like sardines and they don’t send money back to mexico and mouch off of the social services like the illegals do. and they speak and write english fluently and use it as an everyday language. yes if an illegal as a child in this country than the child is also illegal. and there should be harsh penalties on these sancutary states that the illegals occupy.
I await the next barage of excuses.
Wheeler on April 1st, 2009 at 10:03 am | Link
“Wheeler”
Congratulations on your newfound ability to read and research history.
The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was in fact one more link in a long chain of military abuses perpetrated by our great nation against weaker neighbors.
It was signed under duress (illegal US military occupation), by the transitional government of an emerging Mexico severely weakened by an independence war.
This alone is grounds to dismiss the whole affair as illegal.
Similar “treaties” have not withstood the legal modern tests of the World Court and have found to violate art. 52 of the Vienna Convention.
This treaty is no more valid than China annexing Tibetan land by means of brutal use of force and then forcing them to “sign” the 17-Point Agreement to “consent” to it.
This is further supported by the existence of other “treaties” of secession with Mexico, like the Gadsden “purchase”, which was signed under “unofficial” US militia aggression and threats of violence.
As I said before:
I’ll let President Abraham Lincoln and General Ulysses Grant make my case; you can argue with them if you so chose:
“We charge the President with usurping the war-making power… with seizing a country… which had been for centuries, and was then in the possession of the Mexicans.”
“I do not think there was ever a more wicked war than that waged by the United States on Mexico … I have always believed that it was on our part most unjust … We had no claim on Mexico … I am always ashamed of my country when I think of that invasion.”
Thunder-Knife on April 1st, 2009 at 6:01 pm | Link
There is no case for illegals. What part of illegal dont you get? I dont like the fact that Im told to wear a damn seatbelt..But I do it because it is the law. You can pipe up about all the crap youve read, all the history you know, and all the education you may have, and the reality remains; They need to GO. America was once in need of immigrants, because there were so few people here. That time passed. I have no idea why a red-blooded American would be even partly for illegals, unless your just plain stupid. If you break our laws you should pay, and that includes everybody on the planet that steps foot on our shores. Your weak, apologetic, bend over reminds me of Obama and his complete stupidity. What happened to the USA? Where did you dumbasses come from? Your mama drink pesticides? Eat lead paint?
Are those vaccinations really screwing up peoples minds? I have no idea, but the attitude suggested by people like this that are so quick to say that America is the problem is bordering on treason, in my opinion. Dissent and treason are two different things, I am aware of that, but this is a dangerous way of thinking. Illegals are illegal, you drooling idiot. What America has aquired, we aquired, like it or not. I would think it would be about time to give it up. America will not give up land, either.
StevenC on April 2nd, 2009 at 8:19 am | Link
Steve and wheeler are correct and seems that there is a new definition to the term “illegal” that even websters dictionary doesn’t have or describe so to Thunder knife could you help us with the true definition of ” illegal”. I don’t know but maybe we are getting it wrong because it was never correctly defined.
anyway this debate should be put in another way.
lets say “what would happen “IF”
In California, if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico, it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupted hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominate language again.
In Colorado, 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and grand-kids would move back “home,” mostly to Mexico. That would save Coloradans an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 BIL) annually in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.
Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.
Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67 percent drop out/flunk out rate via thousands of illegal alien students speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities in Colorado. Denver’s four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.
In Florida, 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State back to America, the rule of law and English.
In Chicago, Illinois, 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals, schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience.
If 20 million illegal aliens returned “home” —
If 20 million illegal aliens returned “home,” the U.S. economy would return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they wouldn’t be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for local state and city coffers.
No more push ‘1′ for Spanish or ‘2′ for English. No more confusion in American schools that now must content with over 100 languages that degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and free breakfasts and lunches.
We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country. In cities like L.A., 20,000 members of the “18th Street Gang” would vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans! No more foreign rapists and child molesters!
Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by illegal aliens!
Drain on America’s economy; taxpayers harmed, employers get rich
Over $80 billion annually wouldn’t return to their home countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further drains America’s economy which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt.
At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California, Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupted out of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act. Americans wouldn’t suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases rampant in our country-brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.
Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid locking our cities. It would also put the “progressives” on the horns of a dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11 percent of our greenhouse gases.
Over one million of Mexico’s poorest citizens now live inside and along our border from Brownsville, Texas to San Diego, California in what the New York Times called, “colonias” or new neighborhoods. Trouble is, those living areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta where grinding poverty, filth, diseases, drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean water, streets, electricity, roads or any kind of sanitation. The New York Times reported them to be America’s new “Third World” inside our own country. Within 20 years, at their current growth rate, they expect 20 million residents of those colonias. (I’ve seen them personally in Texas and Arizona; it’s sickening beyond anything you can imagine.) By enforcing our laws, we could repatriate them back to Mexico.
High integrity, ethical invitation
We invite 20 million aliens to go home, fix their own countries and/or make a better life in Mexico. We invite a million people into our country legally more than all other countries combined annually. We cannot and must not allow anarchy at our borders, more anarchy within our borders and growing lawlessness at every level in our nation.
There you have it.
It’s time to stand up for our country, our culture, our civilization and our way of life
Ranger
ranger on April 2nd, 2009 at 9:42 am | Link
Good job Ranger. I liked how you put it. I really think you posted the best summary of the problem/solution to illegals in this country. Thank you, keep up the good job.
This is a post about illegal alians, mostly from Mexico. Thunder-Knife, if you can stop mentioning things in this post about things that happened over a hundred years ago between the Mexican and American governments and concentrate on the problems of today with illegal aliens. Its freedom of speech, but its a fact that even Thunder-knife has to agree that illegals are ruining the US. We need to keep our county, money, roads, schools, education, medical, etc for citizens, and legal alieans and adults with work-visa. NO MORE MONEY TO any illegal alians.
Steve Cook on April 2nd, 2009 at 11:40 am | Link
To Thunder-knife,
Ranger has made a good stand on this issue but you seem to be intelligent but the word illegal is where you can begin investigating and i will help you find the definition to that term.
Just type any one of these in your search box …
websters, wikipedia, online dictionary, or ask a lawyer,police officer, judge, or even a commom citizen of what the term Illegal means and get back to us with the answer.
pro illegal immigration groups do not have a leg to stand on and always try and put a mask over what is really at issue here.
we are in afghanistan and iraq to stave off or illiminate terrorism and someday maybe someone will see that the drug lords of mexico are terrorist “which they are” than we will have to do the samething there in order to help mexico become a better place for people to live.
just axactly who gives the mexicans a bad reputation??
Do you think that its quite possible that they themselves are giveing themselves a bad rep or is it the druggies and criminal elements.
There are decent law abideing people in mexico but its the other kind that give them the reputation. so how do we find out who is good and who is bad. we don’t know. that is just one of the problems that we face today..
more to come……..
Wheeler
Wheeler on April 2nd, 2009 at 1:40 pm | Link
Steve and Adrianne you are both right. I am a well, born and raised citizen of the United States Of America, however when people first came to America, they stepped foot on Indian soil…face it, unless you have some Native American, Indian, or those (excuse me for not giving more detail, I’m on vacation) whom really this land belonged to, well you yourself may be born and raised citizen of the USA, but your ancestors sure weren’t very “legal” to the Natives.
Calanthea on April 13th, 2009 at 7:12 pm | Link
To Author: Calanthea, you are way off. This is supposed to be about illegal alians/immigrants effecting our daily way of life by bringing the wages down (Hilton Hotels hire many, many illegals to clean the rooms at sub-standard living, but without the illegals they would have to raise pay and could do so without raising room rates because all they would have to do is not give Paris Hilton millions of dollars per month).
My ancesters immigrated legally (they followed the law). Any Mexicans that also immigrate legally are welcome, but not the scum that are illegal immigrants.
Steve Cook on April 14th, 2009 at 6:38 am | Link
To Steve,
Calanthea, thunder-knife, and mao all have something in common here. they use history to put a mask over what is happening today.
why? They have nothing else to back immigration so why don’t they just come out and say it. Let the drugs and crimes flow and feel sorry for the illegal immigrants. they claim that we stole their land, this isn’t about land, and again all history and not today.
lets just say Hypothetically that american soil was somewhere else maybe where south america is, do they think that mexicans wouldn’t sneak into this country, of course they would. its all about our way of life which they havn’t learned to do.
mao knocks down the U.S. and demacracy and keeps bringing up the past.
Thunder-knife doesn’t knock democracy but tends to dislike americans and brings up history repeatedly.
Calanthea the new one here is also bringing up history.
what about today, let us deal with today instead of history lessons and oh yes i know that we can deal with today by learning from the past kind of stuff but we also must change to the times.
Steve is absolutly 100% correct. Immigration is acceptable when the immigrant has gone through the legal channels but when they don’t than they should be called trespasser’s and not have a single right to any kind of service’s or aid from any city, county, state, or federal program except a deportation bus loaded daily for the trip home.
Wheeler
Wheeler on April 14th, 2009 at 9:51 am | Link
By the way I have a very strong Creek indian ancestory,from the Tallassee Alabama Area. So I know my history a bit, but reality REMAINS no matter how you slice it.
Steven Causey on April 14th, 2009 at 11:28 am | Link
@ wheeler, ranger and his kind:
I think you guys are in the wrong forum. Look for the “I’m angry at my government” blog and discharge all your vile there.
If the big corporations in your country are hiring illegal immigrants, write to your law makers and ask for a change in policies. You’ll see the answer you get….
I understand that some immigrants may have a repercussion in the economy in the form of lowering wages….But they are not the ones hiring, are they? It;s called the “wall-mart” effect.
Please guys wake up. If all the illegal immigrants were to leave the US, you would still have the same problems.
For a fact, chew on this: All weapons and firearms that help fuel the drug trade in Mexico com from the US.
Most of the drugs that come from, or pass through Mexico are consumed and demanded by the US.
Most of the funds used to finance the drug trade come from 16-35 year old Americans.
SO first and foremost, take care of the cancer in your society and then start thinking about the implications of sending the illegal immigrants back.
I live in Mexico and believe me, about 30% of the residents here are white Americans who are here illegally. If you don’t believe me, get out of your trailer and travel to Los Cabos, Mexico.
They are welcomed and respected as human beings.
mao on June 22nd, 2009 at 12:14 pm | Link
Mao, you are so wrong. According to the DEA and FBI stats 17% of the guns come from the United States. That’s it only 17%. YES 17% is too much, but we already have laws stating no US Citizen can sell to anyone outside the country and doing so is a Felony with jail time required. That means 83% of the guns come from Mexico itself and other countries. Mexicans can not leagally own guns, no one can but the military and police legally.
If all illegals left over the next few months will NOT have a Wal-Mart effect. Mao your wrong on that too. If there are fewer workers than there are jobs then companies have to increase the pay to attact workers because of the shortage.
((( this is supply and demand, basic economics 101 )) anyone with a high school edcucation or college degree will agree.
Same thing with oil, cars, houses for sale. If there are too many houses for sale, prices go down as has been happening lately.
Same thing with jobs. if there are fewer workers once the stupid criminal illegals left then the wage will go up. Supply and demand. We do not like the Mexicans that come here illegally, but I am ok with people that have come here legally as long as they follow the rules and leave when their work visa’s expire or they can stay if its extended.
But I do not welcome trespassers in any country. Iran and China have one thing right - jail trespassers.
Illegals take and take without paying taxes. They use other people SSN’s if they use one at all.
AND AS FAR AS THE COMPANY is the guilty one. DO NOT EVER BLAME someone else if you are party to a crime. Meaning if your committing a crime because someone lets you then you both should go to jail. Same thing with drugs. The dealer and the buyer. The dealer is allowing someone to commit a crime by dealing, BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUY. Once you buy your a criminal too.
So the company might be guilty of a crime (hiring illegals) and so is the illegal from Mexico.
A prostitute and her John are both guilt of a crime. So I would say lets round up the illegals and arrest them, fingerprint them and bar them from this country for life.
Mr. Cook on June 22nd, 2009 at 12:35 pm | Link
83% of the guns come from Mexico itself????? man, you make me laugh my arse off.
Mexicans do not, and I repeat, do not have the capabilities nor the demand to make a firearm.
Simply put, try to manufacture, buy or sell a firearm in Mexico and you are put in jail. period.
There are no firearm factories in Mexico. They come from the US, where every household has 1.7 guns.
So either the FBI and the CIA take you as a complete fool, or you are a complete fool and a pathological LIAR.
Economics 101: Stop the demand for drugs and firearms and nobody will try to sell them anymore.
Barack Obama, the son of an African immigrant on his recent trip to Mexico said: “This war (drugs) is being waged with guns purchased not here but in the United States . . . more than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that lay in our shared border,” President Barack Obama said on a visit to Mexico on April 16, 2009. “So we have responsibilities as well.”
While Hillary Clinton said “America’s “insatiable demand” for illegal drugs fuelled the trade and that the US had an “inability” to stop weapons from being smuggled south.
Please try to use more sources for your assertions before making them.
I know that a prostitute, her john and the person who hires their services are all guilty of a crime.
That would make the manufacturer, the dealer and the USER of drugs guilty as well.
Just don’t forget the USER part of the equation, because it may be someone in your family…..
mao on June 22nd, 2009 at 3:55 pm | Link
This forum is supposed to be about illegal alians and not guns and drugs.
Mao, quit calling names and bringing families into it, I never did against you.
Because its a fact that only 17% of the guns come from America. The rest come from somewhere else, and I didn’t say Mexico, I said that its either from Mexico or some other country/countries and I would NOT know where Mexicans get their guns, be we know that there are not a lot of them coming from the United States. 17% come from the US, its a fact that the FBI posted and CNN, World News Now both took and had a story this past late winter, or early spring. Thats a fact. Stop calling names.
Yes I agree that its drug users that are fueling the drug sales, but to say someone in my family is a druggy is wrong, your an asshole to take things personal to family members. I never mentioned your family and I never said your stupid, I said that your wrong because you said most guns come from the US and that is wrong. Only 17% do.
This forum is supposed to be about illegal alians and not guns and drugs.
************************** I found the news story **********************
In a story that looks at the reality of firearms seized from Mexican drug cartels, Fox News and World News Now has found that the truth does not match the rhetoric of anti-gun politicians and journalists.
In a story entitled “The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.” Fox reporters William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott found that the 90% number far overstates the number of U.S. origin guns that are in the hands of the cartels. In fact, the story reports that the number is actually closer to 17%.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/
EXCLUSIVE: You’ve heard this shocking “fact” before — on TV and radio, in newspapers, on the Internet and from the highest politicians in the land: 90 percent of the weapons used to commit crimes in Mexico come from the United States.
– Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it to reporters on a flight to Mexico City.
– CBS newsman Bob Schieffer referred to it while interviewing President Obama.
– California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at a Senate hearing: “It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors … come from the United States.”
– William Hoover, assistant director for field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified in the House of Representatives that “there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States.”
There’s just one problem with the 90 percent “statistic” and it’s a big one:
It’s just not true.
In fact, it’s not even close. The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S.
What’s true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency’s assistant director, “is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S.”
But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.
“Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market,” Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.
A Look at the Numbers
In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced — and of those, 90 percent — 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover — were found to have come from the U.S.
But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.
In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.
So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:
– The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.
– Russian crime organizations. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico.
- South America. During the late 1990s, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) established a clandestine arms smuggling and drug trafficking partnership with the Tijuana cartel, according to the Federal Research Division report from the Library of Congress.
– Asia. According to a 2006 Amnesty International Report, China has provided arms to countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Chinese assault weapons and Korean explosives have been recovered in Mexico.
– The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.
– Guatemala. U.S. intelligence agencies say traffickers move immigrants, stolen cars, guns and drugs, including most of America’s cocaine, along the porous Mexican-Guatemalan border. On March 27, La Hora, a Guatemalan newspaper, reported that police seized 500 grenades and a load of AK-47s on the border. Police say the cache was transported by a Mexican drug cartel operating out of Ixcan, a border town.
‘These Don’t Come From El Paso’
Ed Head, a firearms instructor in Arizona who spent 24 years with the U.S. Border Patrol, recently displayed an array of weapons considered “assault rifles” that are similar to those recovered in Mexico, but are unavailable for sale in the U.S.
“These kinds of guns — the auto versions of these guns — they are not coming from El Paso,” he said. “They are coming from other sources. They are brought in from Guatemala. They are brought in from places like China. They are being diverted from the military. But you don’t get these guns from the U.S.”
Some guns, he said, “are legitimately shipped to the government of Mexico, by Colt, for example, in the United States. They are approved by the U.S. government for use by the Mexican military service. The guns end up in Mexico that way — the fully auto versions — they are not smuggled in across the river.”
Many of the fully automatic weapons that have been seized in Mexico cannot be found in the U.S., but they are not uncommon in the Third World.
The Mexican government said it has seized 2,239 grenades in the last two years — but those grenades and the rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) are unavailable in U.S. gun shops. The ones used in an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Monterrey in October and a TV station in January were made in South Korea. Almost 70 similar grenades were seized in February in the bottom of a truck entering Mexico from Guatemala.
“Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semi-automatic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California,” according to a report in the Los Angeles Times.
Boatloads of Weapons
So why would the Mexican drug cartels, which last year grossed between $17 billion and $38 billion, bother buying single-shot rifles, and force thousands of unknown “straw” buyers in the U.S. through a government background check, when they can buy boatloads of fully automatic M-16s and assault rifles from China, Israel or South Africa?
Alberto Islas, a security consultant who advises the Mexican government, says the drug cartels are using the Guatemalan border to move black market weapons. Some are left over from the Central American wars the United States helped fight; others, like the grenades and launchers, are South Korean, Israeli and Spanish. Some were legally supplied to the Mexican government; others were sold by corrupt military officers or officials.
The exaggeration of United States “responsibility” for the lawlessness in Mexico extends even beyond the “90-percent” falsehood — and some Second Amendment activists believe it’s designed to promote more restrictive gun-control laws in the U.S.
In a remarkable claim, Auturo Sarukhan, the Mexican ambassador to the U.S., said Mexico seizes 2,000 guns a day from the United States — 730,000 a year. That’s a far cry from the official statistic from the Mexican attorney general’s office, which says Mexico seized 29,000 weapons in all of 2007 and 2008.
Chris Cox, spokesman for the National Rifle Association, blames the media and anti-gun politicians in the U.S. for misrepresenting where Mexican weapons come from.
“Reporter after politician after news anchor just disregards the truth on this,” Cox said. “The numbers are intentionally used to weaken the Second Amendment.”
“The predominant source of guns in Mexico is Central and South America. You also have Russian, Chinese and Israeli guns. It’s estimated that over 100,000 soldiers deserted the army to work for the drug cartels, and that ignores all the police. How many of them took their weapons with them?”
But Tom Diaz, senior policy analyst at the Violence Policy Center, called the “90 percent” issue a red herring and said that it should not detract from the effort to stop gun trafficking into Mexico.
“Let’s do what we can with what we know,” he said. “We know that one hell of a lot of firearms come from the United States because our gun market is wide open.”
Mr. Cook on June 22nd, 2009 at 4:49 pm | Link
Lets keep this to illegal aliens, NOT where their guns are coming from. Everyone quit calling names.
Illegal aliens are breaking the law. They don’t respect the law. They are trespassing and should be arrested and deported with a life time ban after they pay a $10,000 fine in order to get out of jail.
Illegal aliens take jobs. If there weren’t any of these illegals, then the companies would be forced to pay higher wages than they pay now. This would help us in the recession, as when more people make money more people spend. Illegals send lots of their money to Mexico and they don’t spend it all here unlike Americans do.
Throw the illegals out from any country, throw their children out even if the children were born here. (if the illegal alien has a child in this country still thow out the whole family, kids too).
They take jobs and keep wages lower.
They send money to other countries.
They steal SSN’s.
They steal medical benefits from hospitals.
Lots of the illegal drugs come from illegals (not all, but still a lot).
They don’t seem to want to speak the native language which is English. (Germany its German, France its French, United States its English).
Jimmy on June 22nd, 2009 at 4:56 pm | Link
OOOPS! It seems I hit a nerve there….
I did not mean to offend your direct family.. I was just using a form of speech that would actually mean: some one in your society or someone you know, may be using drugs (is that very far from truth?).
As the old saying goes: who the cap fit, let them wear it…
But anyways, I brought the topic to the table because immigrants were being blamed for drug dealing and gun related crimes….
I think I made my point by citing your President and your Secretary of Sate on the issue…
After all, if we don’t want, or cannot believe the heads of our government, we are in a very precarious state, aren’t we?
NRA spokespersons, firearms instructors, security advisers, policy analysts and the such don’t have the stature and caliber to be compared with Obama and Clinton. Therefore, I will not believe their creed.
@ jimmy: thank you for the level of rhetoric used to describe your point: “(if the illegal alien has a child in this country still thow out the whole family, kids too).”
It is nice to have another redneck on board…….
I also apologize for my misspellings, English is not my first language..
mao on June 22nd, 2009 at 5:49 pm | Link
My GOD. In the interests of your little bleeding hearts, you would throw America under the bus, gladly. For GODS SAKE, get out of this country, and take OBAMA’S drooling dumb ass with you.
SXRXNRR on June 23rd, 2009 at 6:36 am | Link
Thank you for your contribution SXRXNRR, please take some time to get acquainted with the thread before emitting your opinion.
I am not in the US, I got out a long time ago….and I did not take any drooling dumb arse with me. (They tend to stay and believe what they are told, without analyzing)
.
As for your black, son of an immigrant president Obama, it must be a hard pill to swallow uh?
mao on June 23rd, 2009 at 2:09 pm | Link
Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Here is an example of why hiring an illegal alien is not economically productive for the State of California ..OR ANY OTHER STATE
You have 2 families…”Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal”. Both families have 2 parents, 2 children and live in California (Same applies to any State)
“Joe Legal” works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted….”Jose Illegal” also works in construction, has “NO” Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash “under the table”.
Joe Legal…$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per year
Now take 30% away for state federal tax
Joe Legal now has $31,231.00
Jose Illegal…$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per year
Jose Illegal pays no taxes…
Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00
Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage
$1000.00 per month
$12,000.00 per year
Joe Legal now has $19,231.00
Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year
Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00
Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare
Joe Legal pays for food
$1,000.00 per month
$12,000.00 per year
Joe Legal now has $ 7,231.00
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare
Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00
Joe Legal pays rent of
$1,000.00 per month
$12,000.00 per year
Joe Legal is now in the hole… minus (-) $4,769.00
Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy
Jose Illegal pays rent
$500.00 per month
$6,000.00 per year
Jose Illegal still has $25,200.00
Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
Joe Legal’s and Jose Illegal’s children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children’s lunches while Jose Illegal’s children get a government sponsored lunch.
Jose Illegal’s children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal’s children go home.
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.
Don’t vote/support any politician that supports illegal aliens.
And mao, REALLY, thanks for leaving our beloved country…..Im sure its a better place because of it. And please take the time to kiss my pasty white AMERICAN @$$, if you ever come back. If anybody here needs to keep thier little stupid opinions to themselves, it would be someone who DOESNT LIVE HERE.Crawl back in your hole, goofy.
SXRXNRR on June 23rd, 2009 at 6:58 pm | Link
Nice soap opera SXRNRR. It almost brought tears to my eyes.
Like I said on a past post, look for the “I’m angry at my government” blog and discharge all your vile there.
If companies in your country are hiring illegal immigrants, write to your law makers and ask for a change in policies. You’ll see the answer you get….
I am an American citizen man, and I will go back to your beloved country anytime I want.
And just for your information, we are in this forum is to express our opinions, not to keep them for ourselves.
To do that, we can stay in our trailer in believe what the tv tells us.
I must say that 99% of Americans don’t have the xenophobe and shortsighted opinions you and wheeler share, but man, with people like you, it’s like going back to the trailer park all over again.
The issue is bigger and deeper than adopting a love it or leave it posture.
But hey , maybe your white pasty arse just cannot grasp it..
mao on June 24th, 2009 at 6:39 am | Link
Who gave you the post police job? I posted my opinion, you posted an opinion -=of someone Else’s opinion=-, ignoramus. I almost feel like leaving you with your little perceived win…….almost. And why do you think that living in bricks or wood as opposed to a trailer makes you smarter? I see evidence of the contrary daily, hell, your the contrary. I don’t personally live in a trailer, but I dare you to go to any trailer park and run your mouth like you do here all anonymously. I am proud of what I believe, where I come from, and the people I grew up with, trailers or not. There are more people in trailers than in mansions, I can assure you. And I keep hearing “let them eat cake” over and over again, and you know how that ends, brother. You loathe yourself, your country, and anything else the USA stands for, I guess because your mommy didn’t love you or some pitiful crap and you want the world to suffer like you do. We all have seen your kind before. Your attitude is a cancer. Simply from your rhetoric, its possible to derive an obvious hatred, much like the one Obama has, for the common man.Yet again, the common man outnumbers you. Remember that. So take comfort thinking that I am stupid, and live in a trailer, or whatever else you think makes a “thinking man”, or a rational opinion. Thinking men have lived in caves. I have so little care for what people like you think it’s in the negative. Your a sad little man.But I have bigger fish to fry than your spot-tailed ass today, so Ill leave it at that. And that’s my opinion, like it or not. Feel free to STFU.
SXRXNRR on June 24th, 2009 at 8:29 am | Link
OOUCH!!
That was below the belt and not constructive at all…It almost hurt my feelings.
but like Mr. Bob Marley once said:….who the cap fits, let them wear it, because they are proud.
mao on June 24th, 2009 at 10:08 am | Link
@ mao,
Why then if it is the users fueling the drug trade is there not a massive drug transfer problem on the north border?
True no demand no trade..but we both know with drugs the demand can be created with addiction. Addiction can be created by the pushers… this is why they are called pushers and not salesmen.
mark on June 30th, 2009 at 4:24 pm | Link
I used to have a dog that barked constantly. When you told him to shut up, he would always let out yet another “yelp”….no matter how many times you said “shut up!”…..yelp….yelp….he got hit by a car, or something.
HOLD THE MAO on June 30th, 2009 at 5:24 pm | Link
woow!!
It seems I have a groupie now.
how’s HOLD THE MAO as an original name folks?
deep thinker fellow I must admit. Even though he can only refer to dogs..
Anyway, it is nice to see mark back after some time.
This question is for you mark: If an illegal immigrant is risking his life just to get across the border from Mexico into the States, do you think he is going to try to smuggle dope at the same time?
MILLIONS of people as young as 15 year old in the States NEED drugs. That’s just the way American society is. I’m not making it up.
I am not insulting anybody, but think about it, if you were to expel every person without a green paper in his hand from your country, do you think your problems would be over?
Let me quote Obama: “The American people believe in immigration, and we can’t tolerate employers who exploit undocumented workers in order to drive down wages.”
He also said he is committed to a comprehensive immigration overhaul that includes a way for illegal immigrants to become U.S. citizens.
Now, folks, that’s a good one for y’all..
mao on June 30th, 2009 at 7:16 pm | Link
Come on mao, your bag of wind is empty so quit with the old stuff and bring something new, you know, something that hasn’t been said yet.
history lessons and your conjectior doesn’t apply any longer because it’s mexico that is rotten to the core. yes America has a drug problem but do you not think that Americans have been growing cannibus for centuries without the aid of mexicans, it so happens that the mexicans have tapped into the market. this whole immigration thing isn’t about history, what was stolen from them, it’s about Money and nothing more.
Do you not think that if America was 5000 miles away from mexico.
that if americans originally had there own land to begin with that the mexican would still be the one to sneak they’re way into the country and rob the cradle sort a speak.
The only truth to immigration is they come here for the american dollar, not Dream, they make a bank roll and high tail it back to mexico
they send money back to mexico to the drug dealers unless proven otherwise and at the same time corrupt our society more than we do.
facts speak for themselves and thats statistics on paper if you not understand that. so get your big nose out of the history book because this is not about history or land, or our social problems. IT’S JUST ABOUT MONEY AND IT SO HAPPENS THAT WE ARE THE ONES FOOTING THE BILL.
wheeler
wheeler on June 30th, 2009 at 8:05 pm | Link
Well, that type of immigrant is illegal because they’re undocumented, so technically, “illegal” and “undocumented” is interchangeable. but as for the rest of the “terms” they give them, its all a bunch of Politically correct BS.
Don Quixote on July 28th, 2009 at 5:04 pm | Link
Let me quote Obama: “The American people believe in immigration, and we can’t tolerate employers who exploit undocumented workers in order to drive down wages.”
He also said he is committed to a comprehensive immigration overhaul that includes a way for illegal immigrants to become U.S. citizens.
Now, folks, that’s a good one for y’all
Reality check for mayo. by the way how was the hurricane, It must have sent the druggers scrambling huh.
All this is said by Obama but look at what issue is sitting on the back of the bus. “NOT IMMISMUGGLING”
Ranger
ranger on September 6th, 2009 at 12:40 pm | Link
1. They make better workers
2. Unlike Americans (like me), they are unspoiled and have a good work ethic and don’t demand top $$ nor do they go on strike
Many tryto become legal, but it’s very, very difficult and very expensive. So I can’t blame them.
Please do not feed the trolls.
Cal on December 23rd, 2009 at 7:57 pm | Link
If obama had two brains they would both die of loneliness,
Mike an AMERICAN on May 27th, 2010 at 11:26 am | Link
for Scooter, Better workers who pay no income tax and they get Social Security payments and free medical of which I can’t get enough to live on and I have worked for 50 years. OH I’m sorry I’m probably not a better worker. What I pay for medical would support a small country.
Mike an AMERICAN on May 27th, 2010 at 12:34 pm | Link
for Jimmy I agree Throw all of them out Every last ILLEGAL
Mike an AMERICAN on May 27th, 2010 at 12:39 pm | Link
I am what you would call an “illegal immegrant” but I am not ashamed. I love USA and i get everything without having to pay silly taxes. I had to move from my country as they did not pay good moneys. I told your border men that I was in danger and that my countrymen would kill me if I did not leave but it was lies. I am glad that you rich fat americans can give back to a world which you have taken so much from. I have got many family members here now too which they love also very much. Why do you not let us live in peece? I think that you who moan are the poor middle people who do not have good living like us. We work hard for our dollars, I make copycat clothing line and sell at markets and make $2000 per day minmal and I get to keep and not pay towards war. I send much moneys home to our remaining family so they can get here too. We love America and all of the riches. Please do not stop us living free, it is the american dream.
Adam Nancy on August 17th, 2010 at 7:24 am | Link
@ADAM NANCY
I would really love for you to state that message on a bull horn in Arizona,
Texas, Alabama, or on the White House lawn. Wait a Minute, Excuse the White House Lawn because they will agree with that message,
just bring it to my door step and I will respond with positive reinforcement,
Now what kind of duck fart would make a statement such as this?, I will tell you , one with an I.Q. of a cabbage.
Don’t worry though, This war is just starting to get interesting.
All the illegal drug smuggling criminals need to go to a state that will cater to they’re needs and they can get away with sucking on the countries nipples like Washington and California, In those states you are legal regardless.
“SO JUST DON’T MAKE A STATEMENT LIKE THAT HERE BUT PUT IT ON CNN OR SOMEOTHER NATIONAL NEWS TO BE HEARD”
RANGER
Ranger
Wheeler on August 17th, 2010 at 8:48 am | Link
Well said Ranger…I’m with you.
Not an Illegal on August 17th, 2010 at 8:55 am | Link
Hello My Neighbor Mr Ranger, I would love to visit you in Arizona, thank you. I am only concern though is your red neck attitude, It Stinks bad and I do not mean like the rotten carcus of a over grilled rat belly stew but of an infected mouth ulser caused by a constant sexual abuse of that occurs with you and your sister/daughter. I do not fear your Alabama, many Americanos there are like rats and will one day be exterminated. My fellow country men will all take your moneys and then treat you like a slaves as we have the smartnes to not give our hard earned dollars to your bad man government. In my country, our leader is strong and powerful like a spiderman and he will just crush us if he wants our moneys.
I also think that the user “not an illegal” is funny person like a homosexual as he likes to kiss the back end of Ranger and try and be his friend. Please do not be sad of me , I only want your money and then your land and maybe one day we can be real family if you have a sexy time daughter that is not already been touched by your family, We only like a fresh love as there is many illness in blood of americans.
I hope we can be friends, I can send you money or food if you like it too?
Adam Nancy on August 19th, 2010 at 12:56 am | Link
Hey adam nancy you belong on your knees in the oval office like Monica.
Not an Illegal on August 19th, 2010 at 9:31 am | Link
@madam nancy=========== the comment from not an illegal is correct however it should be on his knees with someone else in the white house lawn in front of him LOL. Oh by the way, from what I understand more states are getting more attracted to the anti rodent law of Arizona Which is good news, The goal should be full “ERADICATION”
however the rodents think that word means erection so they ignore what we say and do things their way anyway.
with reguards
ranger
Wheeler on August 19th, 2010 at 9:55 am | Link
HI
THIS IS ROSE WOODS I WOULD LIKE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT TWO ILLEGAL PEOPLE LIVING IN NEWYORK CITY AND WORKING ILLEGALLY TOO
THERE ADDRESS IS
1912 HOLLAND AVE 1F
BRONX NY 10462
AND THERE WORK ADDRESS IS
GULF GAS STATION
BOSTONE ASTRO
I HOPE U LL BE ACTING TOWARDS IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE
REGARDS
ROSE WOODS
whats wrong with our government why dont they arrest them
rose on August 30th, 2010 at 10:14 am | Link
Hello Rose
Coming to this type of obscure and secluded corners of the web to “complain or report” 2 illegal people living in New York City only confirms the fact that xenophobic people like you, ranger, wheeler and some other social vomits are just plain dumb and ignorant.
What’s wrong? You don’t trust your immigrant president?
Wake up, there are millions of people living “illegally” in NYC alone.
And they will never leave.
You have 2 options: Either you learn how to live with them, or you find yourself another place to live, like Arizona or ranger’s shack, which I’m sure you will find interesting, to say the least. I would not be surprised if you find wheeler and some female relatives there too.
No wonder the world thinks so low of you guys.
cheers
mao on August 31st, 2010 at 7:20 am | Link
@ mao
No Mao, What needs to happen is from the inside like the Arizona law which is correctly written needs to pass in every state.
please study all of the problems we have today compared to years ago when illegal immigration wasn’t a than you will find out that the bulk of the problems started shortly after Regan granted Amnesty to your friends, “the Drug cartels” and Illegal dope smugglers.
You Mao said that the mexicans were here first, Does not make a difference because this whole issue is not about land,IT’S ABOUT MONEY AND NOTHING BUT THE MONEY. There is no more American Dream, no more Jobs, no more of a lot of things so quit shooting your mouth off unless you know what your going to shoot at.
more states are starting to eye this new law of Arizona so lets wait and watch.
there will be a day when all this changes that you will have to sell your mansion and move into a lean too with your drug friends.
Just tell them all to move to California, Washington, Utah, or New Mexico because they have automatic legal status in those states but leave the rest alone..
regards
Wheeler on August 31st, 2010 at 9:41 am | Link
wheeler the dreamer….NO ONE will adopt that type of law in it’s pure form. No state has and no state will. period
Once the electoral processes is over, you will hear NOTHING about this issue. It happens every 4 years, com’on, don’t tell me you have not noticed..
you must watch fox news right?
People like you are minorities in some states already, so either you jump on another train or you will be holed up with your cronies. Like the indians.
Even Maricopa Mayor is facing lawsuits from the federal government for his Hitler attitude.
I will say this again and again, illegal or legal immigrants ARE NOT the source of your problems.
The source is your rotten, hypocritical, weapon and drug-driven society.
Change it or live with it!
before I forget, ranger, please take your bloody nose out of wheeler’s arse.
You can argue better than him…
mao on August 31st, 2010 at 5:25 pm | Link
I love it when you get mad mao, You do have a way of shmoosing the points that have been mentioned in all the previous posts because you really don’t have anywhere to go with them so keep dreaming things up.
I laugh each time you do the talk show talk.
By the way, who killed those 72 Immigrants down in Mexico,
I will bet my life it wasn’t a old country boy or red neck. “NICE PEOPLE YOU HAVE DOWN THERE”
I think you better get your sniffer out of the coke bowl and start writing mystery novels. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
The Americans will take care of this problem one way or another.
Lol
Wheeler on September 1st, 2010 at 7:43 am | Link
who killed the immigrants? the same people who supply the drugs NEEDED by your rotten society. With the weapons your decaying society sells like pancakes there.
See, before Mexico, it was Colombia, and after Mexico who knows, but the fact is that Americans are drug addicts and hypocrits and they will need some one to supply the stuff they inhale.
The Americans will not take care of that situation, just read the news, your government is busy trying to secure oil pipelines in Irak, Afghanistan, and many other parts of the world.
Your army kills 72 people a day in those places. All in the name of a lifestyle nobody in the worlds wants. Ignorant drugged-up cowboys with guns.
Although I must admit that there are good American people there too.
Por eso nadie los quiere en todo el mundo. Aparte de racistas son ignorantes.
It’s probably too much asking you to learn another language, when you can barely write your own, right?
how is ranger doing?
Just in case I never told you, I have American citizenship, I was born there. I just decided to keep my distance.
It does not make me any better, but at least I won’t have to deal with close minded rednecks like you.
mao on September 1st, 2010 at 8:02 am | Link
some how I knew that you were going to mention red neck LOL..
Don’t you have any other definitions in your I hate Americans dictionary.
You better look up the word Iraq for the correct spelling to.
once again you do the blah, blah, blah, Have you thought of going on Heraldo. or better yet jerry springer.
If I was Dreaming I would like to see a dream like all legal mexicans get American Dollars and all illegal Immigrants get pesos with no free services made available. The whole Issue is made up to be complicated but it really isn’t. Law is Law, it just depends on how its’s interpreted and as far as being in this country illegal is a constitutional right is Questionable. Digg that.
Wheeler on September 1st, 2010 at 8:22 am | Link
Geraldo or Jerry Springer….
You are really a low, ignorant hick, aren’t you ranger?
I will have time for you when you elevate the level of your rhetoric at least a little bit and respond about serious issues
redneck
mao on September 1st, 2010 at 8:28 am | Link
hey, mao why are you against America and Americans. If you don’t like it here go to China or Mexico and complain to them how bad they are. According to you all America should kiss your ass.
Mike an AMERICAN on September 1st, 2010 at 9:20 am | Link
Mike, take a moment and get acquainted with the thread before you emit any opinion.
I don’t like it there, that’s why I live in Mexico (Cabos, to be exact).
I am not against all Americans, because I am one, so I could not be against myself right?
I am against social blunders like wheeler, ranger and the lot, who blame the immigrants for their problems. Not realizing that the source of their problems is within themselves and the way they think and live.
Xenophobic individuals of any nationality should indeed kiss my arse.
mao on September 1st, 2010 at 9:31 am | Link
where’s mark anyway? at least he knows a bit more about this thread.
I see ranger and his mate wheeler but no mark!
I don’t want to disregard Mike, but it’s like going back months of discussion!
And people like Rose Woods, for god’s sake! either send her to do her GED or give her this number: 911
mao on September 1st, 2010 at 9:40 am | Link
You got me rollin now, Wow, Los cabos or is it supposed to be los cannibus, I can do this all day mayo. First I am not Ranger but he should be here because I think he would laugh to.
What exactly are you pack en when you take your day trips to america in your private jet. Nerdy people like you should know that America is fed up with the situation. with all your smarts and wisdom tell everyone where the so called American dream has gone? I will tell you, It’s gone south.
What is it that makes you believe that all this is right. The Mexican society is destroying itself by its mere mentality. Gangs taking over towns, cities, and no resources to stop them. however they will except monetary donations for the cause. It’s all a joke at best.
The U.S. will start the drone flights soon and now the idea is to shore up the border a little more with national guard will get bigger as time goes on.
Stay tuned
Wheeler on September 1st, 2010 at 9:52 am | Link
NO, NO, NO Wheeler.
You NEED the drugs. I the US seals the border, where are they going to come from?
Imagine 100 million of extremist people like you with NO fixes?
And armed?
Not even your immigrant president can control that. You would have a coup.
Better to drug them up and make them believe they actually have a saying and can change things.
La droga y la media los tiene controlados.
mao on September 1st, 2010 at 11:49 am | Link
You have got to be kidding Mao!!!!!
You mean to tell me that drugs are not being grown or manufactured in the U.S. “Hey stupid” guess what!! They have been growing and making the crap for decades and besides that there are other countries that bring it in.
you know what mao, get off this blog because you not know what you say when you say it. The defense of the Illegal Druggies is nearing a wipe out.
I would love to cram everyone of those illegal gang and cartel members along with the rest of the illegal rats right up your Hershey highway. ” STUPID”
Wheeler on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:48 am | Link
easy tiger!!!!!
try to control yourself…..
I you can’t handle it, go and play some nintendo or have a joint.
Drugs have been grown and made for decades in the States, yes you are right. But guess what? They are not enough!
Your rotten society cannot produce drugs domestically fast enough to feed your druggies. That’s why they are being brought over from Colombia, Mexico etc etc.
The minute the US controls the demand, that minute the supply will also stop.
Remember economics 101 in college? supply and demand?
Or is it too much to ask from you GED boy?
Immigrants do not damage the States as you would like to believe, the have enriched it since it was founded.
In a few months only you and your cronies will be talking about this issue, because once this electoral period is over, the government will drop it completely.
Remember, it’s only every 4 years to get a vote from people like you.
Or write to Obama, your immigrant president.
Despierta Pendejo
mao on September 2nd, 2010 at 3:27 pm | Link